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Post by gloria on Feb 19, 2011 18:07:48 GMT -5
Hi Abram, I'm amazed at the work you are doing on discussing the case, I found that I agree with you practically on everything and I'm glad to find that there is more people who believes in Jordan's innocence. That gives me hope for him. Deborah Houk and Adam Harvey were sitting together in court, or so I seem to remember reading somewhere Probably you have seen it in wondervogel diary, I think I read the same there. About Joella's answer, if that is true then that means that Kenzie was alive when they left so is impossible for Jordan to have made it. At Jordan's age, I didn't have empathy, sympathy or necessarily know what I did wrong until I was told (seriously hurting anyone was something I did know not to do)– nor was I worried about punishment until it was at my door. We were boys, but today you can't pass gas without consequences. We all grew up to be caring responsible adults with families. So I don't get why psychiatrists or anyone else can think juveniles are supposed to be little angles – that wouldn't be normal.
Normally I didn't want to admit the truth or admit to wrongdoing – I also had to be run down and caught and the coaxed into telling the truth. We were almost never punished for telling the truth, that made telling it easier and easier. I was trained to admit and be truthful. I totally agree with you, what they expect to be the beheaviour of a child to be a complet angel? wandervogeldiary.wordpress.com/2010/09/13/counting-counting/We know that this particular brand and type of 20-gauge shell is manufactured with slightly fewer than 200 #6 pellets in each one. Yet fewer than 30 of these pellets were recovered from Kenzie’s head. There were no holes in the mattress, no pellets in the bedding, no pellets in the pillow or walls. If the police are telling the truth, where are the roughly 160 missing pellets?So what kind of weapon and ammunition could have delivered fewer than 30 pellets to Kenzie’s brain?
I think I read as well that the police didn't realize Kenzie had been shot until they moved the body to the gurnett. Do you Think about the possibility that kenzie could have been killed in other place of the house and then moved to the bed where she was put. Is just a thought I don't know, what do you think. wandervogeldiary.wordpress.com/2010/09/16/lie-to-me/like a last note, I really enjoyed the story of the police coming to your house. That was funny, it really made me laugh Thanks for your support to Jordan Brown.
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abram
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Post by abram on Feb 19, 2011 19:19:54 GMT -5
Gloria, thanks so much for your extended response and it is my pleasure. Besides being wild, I grew up with Zoro, Roy Rogers and the Lone Ranger you know.
I agree it is unusual if no one noticed the wound until they moved her onto the gurney. There should be lots of blood where she lay and an obvious wound. Not only that, Kenzie would have to be laying on her side to be shot in the back of the head since at 8.5 months pregnant she wouldn't be laying on her belly. Considering the layout of the house, as I perceive it from pictures, where the windows are, the fact the bedroom was to the right of the front door (police statement) and beds are usually against inside walls – not under a window, means she was laying on her side facing the window to the right of the house with her back to the door. In such a circumstance the wound would be facing the police who were looking through the doorway. If not then the murder had to walk in the room, go around to the other side of the bed without waking her, before shooting her. If the crime was committed elsewhere in the house then the criminal must be good at cleaning up as I would think there'd be a mess and what of Adalynn?
Where was she all the time? Has she slept through the shooting or was she told to stay upstairs? I'm thinking if Adam was in the house when Jordan and Janessa left for school, Adalynn believes him to be her daddy, he might have told her to go upstairs and stay there. If she slept until the shooting, surely that woke her up and that wouldn't leave the murder much time to clean up or do anything except make a get away.
The only place I read about the pellets was on the Wandervogel web site. I suspect he received that info from an insider but no documents. What he said about a bullet casing stuffed with the pellets seems plausible to me.
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abram
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Post by abram on Feb 21, 2011 17:36:00 GMT -5
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abram
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Post by abram on Feb 21, 2011 18:26:02 GMT -5
Gloria, this is a link to an early article it has a good amount of details but either Bongivengo (District Attorney) seems to have altered the time line to better suit his theory or police statements and 911 record of time are wrong. www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/cityregion/s_612909.htmlPolice said the girl told them that "a few minutes prior to the 'big boom' she heard her mother tell her and the defendant that they needed to leave or they were going to miss the bus. She stated that only herself, the victim, the defendant and her 4-year-old sister (who was sleeping) were present in the residence." It is strange that after two previous statements clearing Jordan Janessa has changed her statement on the third police interview. Also, something is amiss here because to the best of my knowledge an affidavit is something written on paper but in court when the defence asked the court for her statements the prosecution told the court that they didn't have anything on paper. www.ncnewsonline.com/local/x546275917/Jordan-Browns-lawyers-seek-witness-statementsBongivengo doesn't get the times right and either the journalist was imagining an affidavit or the prosecution is withholding evidence! Maybe someone should talk to the journalist (Rick Wills)? This adds credibility to what Joella wrote. P.S. I now think the defense had the affidavits but were seeking material since.
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Post by gloria on Feb 21, 2011 19:48:27 GMT -5
Abram, some of the vids I have seen with Mr.Bongivengo I can see the man doesn't give me much confidence. I think it was just the next day to the shooting you can hear bogavingo like he was making up a story because still didn't have all the facts. So to me it looked like he was making it all up. He even most of the time is not looking directely at the camera. 11 year old murder suspect www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5fpj9Gojns&playnext=1&list=PL8B557B58115B9F93And in the interview it was done to him after Judge dominic motto said he should be tried as an adult 1:10 he is stuttering, sorry I don't like him. I distrust him completely. www.youtube.com/watch?v=co-sU6LRyYk you can see him there very nervous. maybe Joella was right after all. If Kenzie was alive when they left, that clears jordan. If jannesa said "a few minutes prior to the 'big boom' she heard her mother tell her and the defendant that they needed to leave or they were going to miss the bus. that means she was alive when the kids left, so what really happened whit the 2 first statements?, is what really worries me. Becase if that's true then someone is manipulating that little girl into lying, but why? maybe I'm being a little bit exagerating but to me since the first day it was obvious to me at least that the houk's family always disliked Jordan. You wouldn't accuse the kid so quick and talk so bad about him if you would have love him at least a bit. Is my opinion at least. what would they be saying if it would have been one of the girls?, sure as hell they wouldn't be asking for LWOP. And they have had to change more than once everything they have said. like when one woman said "if he can muffled a gun so noone can hear him, he has the mentality of an 18 year old kid". Now that it has been probed that the hole in the blanket it was an old mark cirgarrete they had to change the lyrics. There is not a single gunpowder residue on that blunket, is not on the evidence presented to the court. The media has been feed with half truths all along and they have put the life of this child in jeopardy. To me this is an henious crime.
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abram
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Post by abram on Feb 21, 2011 21:34:15 GMT -5
I read the article again as I think if there were affidavits the defense lawyers must have copies. It is likely the defense was asking for anything that might be available since then.
Yes Gloria, he doesn't inspire much confidence. I think he's a misguided man who knows exactly what he is doing and that it isn't right. He doesn't deserve his position.
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abram
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Post by abram on Feb 21, 2011 22:34:43 GMT -5
Thanks for this link Gloria, www.youtube.com/watch?v=co-sU6LRyYk. Here is what I picked out about Elisco – one of the defence lawyers. Elisco doesn't inspire confidence either. Quote; “They have slight evidence, that maybe suggests – perhaps - probably – and thats about all they need to do for today's purposes.” Is that all he could say when asked about gun residue? What about stating it's absolute insignificance when you consider how often and how much they fire guns. Quote; “We don't want him out on bail, we want to continue him up in Erie, the Edmund L Center, for a little while longer, to show that he is amendable to juvenile rehabilitation.” What? Amendable for what? Were you depending on the just treatment from the prosecution Elisco? Were you handing them peace offerings in hope that they would allow a trial in Juvenile court, which they didn't? Now it is out of local hands and Jordan has spent two years being incarcerated on that gamble. Elisco is too passive he needs to be replaced and bail granted for Jordan. This guy is much too cooperative with the system and he doesn't speak well in public for Jordan.
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Post by gloria on Feb 25, 2011 17:22:50 GMT -5
I'm going to agree with you Abram but do you think it would be good for Jordan to change lawyers now? I've never understand either why Jordan's lawyers has left this gone this far. when I talk with my friends about this case one of them told me or Jordan's lawyers were too bad or the prosecution was too good, or there is too much corruption (I think is a little bit of everything lol) because how can be hold prisoner a child for so long if the evidence shows his innocence. It doesn't have any sense to me. And that's what makes so many people to doubt about Jordan's innocence. I don't think his lawyers are doing enought to address Jordan's innocence. I truly believe Jordan is innocent I could be wrong of course, noone is in posetion of the absolute truth but even if he did it and honestely is a huge IF in my opinion, I think no child should ever be tried as an adult, hell I wouldn't even put an 11 year old in jail, there must be other ways to address this kind of cases.
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abram
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Post by abram on Feb 25, 2011 19:44:26 GMT -5
I couldn't agree with you more Gloria and about the lawyer, my concerns exactly. Here is how I rationalized the lawyer question;
How can anyone have confidence in a lawyer who suggests to keep Jordan incarcerated and talks as if to defend the prosecution - disgusting. The effect was to feed the publics' misconceptions of what really happened. It was a bad omen and completely ridiculous that Elisco didn't fight for Jordan's release on bail or a release period, just so that the system could evaluate him. An evaluation could just as well have been done while he was at home.
If it were me, I would ask myself is it better to go with a lawyer who knows my case from the beginning but for which I have little confidence in because of his poor representation and presentation of my case, or do I switch to a lawyer who will put his heart and soul into my case and fight tooth and nail for bail, a win or acquittal. This is too serious to leave to someone who is complacent.
Dan Dailey from the wandervogeldiary has and is doing much for Alex King. He has found a top notch lawyer for him, who did well for Alex. I expect if Chris and family encouraged Dan he would do the same for Jordan. So if I were Jordan's father – I'd start looking. It wouldn't take a good lawyer much time to get up to speed.
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